WSET Bitesize – What is natural wine?

Foreign Welcome to this webinar Um good morning good afternoon good Evening I'm just letting Um the participants uh trickle in uh do Let us know in the chat where you're Dialing in from Welcome welcome wow number's really Climbing that's exciting Do let us know in the chat where you're Dialing in from Um Wow lots and lots of people that's Brilliant And from all over And so yeah warm welcome to uh this First WSET Global webinar um of the New Year all about natural wine uh my name's Anjali I'll introduce myself properly in A second Um but just a little bit of housekeeping If you have any questions Um please do answer them please do write Them down on the on the Q a function Um this session is going to be recorded And will be available to watch by the Wct global events Hub on YouTube Um I think we will get started there is Such a lot to get through for this Webinar in particular Um so firstly Um hello everybody this is me my name is

Anjali Um I'm a wine educator Um at the wsct school in London Um and I find this subject in particular Um that we're going to be looking at Today natural wine Um one of the most fascinating kind of Dynamic sides of um the wine industry so I'm really excited to kind of get stuck In Um and discuss some of this stuff with You Um Firstly a few kind of Things to things that crossed my mind as I was researching this topic Um I've done uh a couple of bite-sized Webinars for Dollar City Global and this Topic on natural wine was by far the Trickiest Um particularly to kind of get in in Time and to make sure that Um I was kind of keeping everything as Balanced as possible I guess Um and that's because the the question What is natural wine is is quite a Thorny question it's one that um is Quite contentious and divisive in the World of wine Um and a lot of people have a lot of Strong views on them Uh I would say the the voices are either

End of these arguments are generally the Loudest so there's lots of people who Who have real strong views on exactly What natural wine should constitute Um I've had a go at Um kind of giving it some definitions Um summing up the ethos and a few things Like that but you are more than welcome To disagree with me in fact Um that is especially welcome for this Subject because it's it's such an area Kind of ripe for debate Um a few other kind of things to point Out that the the natural wine ethos Um from from the kind of research I've Done is really widely agreed with Um across lots of parts of the wine Industry Um it's the term itself that can cause Um cause a few problems and we'll we'll Look at that in the next few slides Um and it's that term that in some ways Arguably some producers could use it for Their own kind of advantage and we'll Look at that too in a little bit more Detail Um Okay so some some quotes really uh Coming up to keep in mind before we go Into the kind of definitions of what Natural wine is which I'm sure you're All very keen to kind of Um understand I think some some Um voices in the industry to keep these

Kind of quotes in the back of your mind As we're looking at Um some of the definitions and some of The ethos of natural wine so firstly our Advocates of Um the term and the category Firstly we have Sebastian rifo a Winemaker based in in the Dua Valley in Sansa who says natural wine it's not for Everyone it's not made like fast food But it's totally pure Um and then we have Isabel leisureon MW Um who's the author of a book called Natural wine A big advocate of the um of the category Um and she says like Sailors going to See natural winemakers understand that Nature is much greater than themselves Only natural wine can be truly great Um so these are our two Advocates I've Also got Um a couple of quotes from some some Natural wine I guess Skeptics or Detractors and so firstly we have Robert Parker the very Um famous wine critic So natural wine is an undefined scam and Another critic Michelle betan Um there is no definition of natural Wine it exists because it proclaims Itself so it is a fantasy of marginal Producers Um now these are just I guess ideas to Keep in mind as we as we go through this

Webinar Um and hopefully by the end of it you Can you can maybe decide for yourself Whether you entirely agree with some of These um quotes or none of them uh you Think it's more kind of somewhere in the Middle of what these views are but just Some kind of some views to keep in mind As we go through the rest of this um the Rest of this webinar Something else to address I think this Is really regarding the specifics of the Term natural wine Um and I think this is why the the Category is is so Um tricky in lots of ways this word Natural Um Has consistently been quite a difficult World word across food and drink Labeling um and it's no exception for Wine Um It can be deliberately misleading in That sense Um and that's because these this image Of these beautiful grapes um on this Slide Humans need to be involved in order to Convert these beautiful grapes into wine Um and so In lots of Senses if we take the term Literally Um there can't be such thing as natural

Wine because humans need to be involved In the production Um and that's why when it comes to the Term natural wine it's likely that the Term is going to remain an informal term That that you can Proclaim yourself to Be Um and and this is where some problems May crop up which um some of the the Detractors have alluded to Um however there are certifications Um that may be helpful which we'll also Explore in the in the in the rest of This webinar and to help you make an Informed decision when buying your your Wine Uh and because it's a self-proclaimed Term and because the word natural has a Lot of marketing cachet Um it's a term that many producers Regardless of their ethos may be Keen to Use So it's a time to be a little bit aware Of whether or not you wholly agree with The ethos the term natural wine can be a Little bit tricky Um for these reasons Now I thought before Um I Um present to you the kind of definition Um that I've kind of put together for Natural wine thought would be worth Looking at why natural wine has come to Be why now

Um and why it exists uh and I think part Of it lies in this Um beautiful image on my slide of this Beautiful Vineyard and I think what has Happened in recent years is increasing Um producers and consumers have become Aware that when it comes to Conventional Wine production this image is not Necessarily the reality of large-scale Production in wine and that's certainly Been a trend really since the 80s 1980s we've seen huge advances in wine And Technology Um and largely these have been really Embraced by lots of sides of the the Wine industry particularly production Um and producers have found themselves Able to adjust or another word maybe Correct their wines like never before Um and what this has meant is that Producers have been increasingly able to Make Wines in any desired style Particularly Um a style that there might be a lot of Consumer demand for Um regardless of whether the vineyard or The location that they're growing their Grapes in is well suited to this kind of Production Um because since the 1980s there are so Many ways you can manipulate your wine Into tasting exactly how you want it to Regardless of what the weather was like That year

Um whereabouts you're growing your Grapes You can make whatever wine you want Um And so the emergence of natural wine can Be connected to a reaction against the Popularity of these kind of heavily Manipulated technically perfect Wines in The 90s 80s and 90s Um so these are very much wines that Were designed Um that were kind of briefed I want to Make a wine that tastes like this please Can we work out how to make this wine Using various additions adjustments and Processing AIDS Um and the natural wine Um I'm hesitant to call it a movement Because uh many within uh the world of Natural wine uh don't really like you Considering it a movement because it is Quite disparate uh but within the world Of natural wine Um we can largely see it as a reaction Against this style Uh the popularity or the rise in natural Wine uh can also be Um arguably connected to a rise in Wellness culture Um which we see across um food and Beverage Um and an increasing awareness of the Climate crisis in the last 10 or 15

Years so this is the place Um that we're looking out from when We're looking at the rise of natural Wine So that's a little bit about the why now I'm going to get stuck into the ethos of Natural wine Um and Because there's no Um clear set of criteria to Define Natural wine Um this has all been put together by by Research that I've done For this webinar and I've kind of looked Into uh the ethos of of producers Um as well as of uh what consumers are Asking for Um retailers Distributors essentially Across the trade Um what the ethos kind of seems to end Up with Um and it is that reaction against this Kind of heavy heavily manipulated style So the natural wine ethos Um it sits in within the idea that the Producer should be working with nature Instead of fighting against it so in the Way that Isabel leisureon MW um the Quote that I had from her at the Beginning Um that natural winemakers are like Sailors Um on on the waves uh producers of Natural wine should be working alongside

What nature throws at them rather than Consistently kind of coming up with Um ideas interventions and manipulations To fight against what nature is giving In a particular year So what this means is as few Interventions as possible should be made Both in the vineyard and in the winery And that these interventions should be Physical And not chemical uh and some examples There so a physical intervention might Be the choice in utilizing skin contact And by that I mean allowing grape skins To um Stoke in the grape juice Particularly used for white grape Varieties Um and this might act as a kind of Natural stabilizer of the wine as well As giving the wine some texture Um blending might also be a good example Of a physical intervention as opposed to A chemical one Chemical interventions include things Like acidification so adding acidity to Your wine to um Counteract what you might perceive as a Lower level of acidity in the fruit that The growing season has given you or Correcting the color of the wine Correcting the mouth feel of the wine With various chemical additions Um another aspect of the natural wine Ethos is that the wine should reflect

The region and the growing season as far And specifically as possible What this means is you can certainly Expect Um within the world of natural wine To experience bottle variation Um within the same labeled wine year to Year and occasionally even bottle Variation Um a lot along the same wine in the same Year Um and that's because We want to be doing as little as Possible and working with exactly what The elements have given us Um and not every growing season is the Same each year you're going to Experience different weather patterns And that's going to affect the The Grapes on the vine Um the number of them the ripeness of Them and therefore this style of wine You're going to be creating so we should Expect year to year wine to taste Different Um and this uh does really counteract uh The the trend in consistency of wine in The 80s and 90s this wine has a Particular consumer who wants the wine To taste the same every year and we're Going to need to make various Adjustments to be able to achieve that So in order to reflect the the region And growing season as far and

Specifically as possible Um this may be at the expense of volume Um it may be at the expense of the Consistency that we've discussed and Sometimes it may be at the expense or It may include Aromas that are more Unexpected and not necessarily Conventionally desired um it may not Though these natural wines Um along this ethos May taste pretty Similar to a conventional wine Um they may however also Uh display Aroma is that a little bit More unexpected So that's the ethos Um that's what we're going to be Thinking about Um if we want to make a natural wine we Want to be Um Essentially making as few interventions As possible Um so how do we do that the Practicalities of it Um I'm going to explore a little bit in The next slide I'm just caveat it again Um by uh reminding you that there's Still no universally agreed definition Or fixed that of criteria for natural Wine so the Um uh definition uh or the Practicalities I'm going to indicate Here are really

Um after having done some research and Um finding the elements to natural wine Production that really are the most kind Of widely agreed Um so firstly the why needs to be made Organically Um it needs to be made with minimal or Zero adjustments or processing AIDS The why needs to be made using ambient Yeasts this is as opposed to Cultured or commercial yeasts Um the why needs to be made with minimal Sulfur dioxide and sometimes none at all Um I've put this in it's not necessarily Um As cut and dry as and the other elements But the why needs to be fermented and Stored in a neutral vessel Um And the wine needs to have undergone Minimal clarification and filtration I'm Going to break all of these down in the Next few slides but hopefully this Already gives you a kind of indication That natural winemakers don't want to do Anything that may strip out the Character of the wine Or manipulate the character of the wine Um and that goes right from Vineyard all The way through to fermentation Um and uh all activities in the winery Too Um so these are some things to keep in Mind

Um as we go through the rest of the the Webinar and I'm going to break down Um some of these particular factors So firstly um what's going on in the Vineyard now Um the the as a minimum standard natural Wine the grapes for natural wine need to Be produced organically and This uh requires depending on your Certification Um wine made without the use of Synthetic pesticides herbicides or Fungicides Um and organic viticulture is one Perspective on ensuring that the Vineyard is viewed as an entire Ecosystem and not just as a monoculture So not we don't just have the Grapevine Growing we have all sorts of other forms Of life within the vineyard that give us An ecosystem and therefore naturally can Protect against Um pests and diseases Um The Vineyard may be biodynamic as Well Um biodynamics Uh include all of the the don'ts of Organic viticulture so no pesticides no Herbicides and no fungicides as well as Some dudes as well so there's some Um Activities to be um carried out within Biodynamic viticulture Um and actually all of the

Um all of the activities or all of the Perspectives on this slide could do with Their own Um their own webinar in and of Themselves so I'm really just going to Be touching on them but biodynamic Viticulture as well as those don'ts of Organic viticulture include things like Taking into account Um homeopathy Um and carrying out your uh Vineyard Activities according to the lunar Calendar Um some other Um Uh Vineyard perspectives to keep in mind Uh firstly regenerative viticulture Um this is really about making sure that The soil is kept in good Health and is not completely depleted Um by the vine and the crop it's not a Um certification but it's a it's a guide To ensure that the um soil and the Vineyard is kept in good health and Therefore can sustain grape growing for Many many years Um and this runs alongside a sustainably Made wine Which again there's a lot of crossover With all of these four Um perspectives on running a Vineyard Um the time just sustainably made Indicates a lot about organic production Um a lot about regenerative viticulture

As well so making sure the soil is kept Um really healthy Um but also taking into account the Financial sustainability in the economic Sustainability of producing wine Uh so that's a little bit about what's Going on in the vineyard when it comes To natural wine now Um next we're going to have a little Look at adjustments and processing AIDS Now this is something you still Currently cannot find out on the back Label of a wine just how many Adjustments and what kind of processing AIDS have been used to produce these Wines and I'm gonna list out for you a Few examples of some of these um for Conventional wine production but it Really doesn't scratch the surface there Is an awful lot of adjustments awful lot Of processing AIDs that you can use to Make wine Um So some additions Um regarding conventional production so We won't find these additions in natural Wine production and they include Acidification so adding um tartaric acid To the wine to raise the level of Acidity Um adding sugar to the wine Um or adding sugar to the grape juice to Bump up the final level of alcohol in The wine

Um you might want to correct the color Of the wine or the mouth feel Um you might want to add some flavor Additions so using something like Oak Chips to give the indication of a kind Of Oaky flavor Um some processing AIDs that the Difference here between an adjustment And a processing Aid is that a Processing Aid should not be remaining In the final product so they're used as A way to get the wine to the final point That you want it to get to Um and that includes using Um finding agents Um which include a lot of animal Products um such as egg white Um to find a wine means to ensure that Uh your wine is and remains perfectly Clear and so you would also use finding Agents to make something like a Consummate Um if you're interested in in cooking And chefri Um and we use these products or Conventional wine producers will use These products to ensure that the wine Is is Um clear in appearance Um commercial yeast as well may be used To kick off a fermentation Um as opposed to using Um ambient yeasts uh we're going to look At that in a bit more detail on the next

Slide here so To recap Um or to have a little look about how Wine is made I mean yeast is um Fundamental so in order to make wine we Need sugar in our grapes and via the Um action of yeast we're going to Convert that sugar into alcohol and Carbon dioxide now Really when it comes to still one Production alcohol is is the name of the Game here the most important thing Um and it's that yeast Um that for conventional wine production We can purchase a cultured yeast in Order to allow our fermentation to take Place and a cultural a cultured yeast Will allow a very reliable fermentation It will Um it means that the wine that you're Going to be uh that you will end up with Will likely be a more consistent wine That maybe has the Aromas that you might Specifically are seeking for your wine Um whereas natural wine production will Use ambient yeasts These are yeast that exist Um in the Vineyard and Winery ambiently Um and to use these ambient yeasts that Are that exist within the Vineyard and Winery Um This may well mean that the wine that We're going to end up with is a more

Complex wine Um However ambient yeasts may also make a Wine a bit more vulnerable to spoilage As the wine is being produced so it's More risky to use ambient use but you Can really see the benefits in terms of Ending up with a much more complex wine And I guess the best analogy here Because we're using yeast for the same Thing is is something like sourdough Bread Um so sourdough bread is a good example Of a bread that uses ambient yeasts Um whereas a kind of a packet in a Supermarket of sliced white bread that Might be the equivalent of a product That uses culture juice so that would be Our conventional wine equivalent whereas Sourdough would be our ambient yeast our Natural wine uh equivalent So that's a little bit on yeast Um sulfur dioxide now this is Um another kind of thorny issue Uh SO2 or sulfur dioxide is both an Addition that you can make you can add To your wine and also as a natural Byproduct of fermentation It's widely used across wine production Um and used to produce wine at all Quality levels Um the reason it's used is because it's Both an antioxidant and an antiseptic so

SO2 will protect your wine from Oxidation and may also protect your wine From microbial spoilage so it acts to Protect your wine Um and really the accepted level of SO2 Um added to a wine really quite Drastically varies Um both from the point of view of Conventional wine And natural wine and even within the Natural wine Community the accepted Level can really vary um between Producers Um sulfur dioxide um is also an allergen Uh and as an allergic reaction it Affects two to three percent of the Population and the reaction will be Respiratory Um so uh the idea that um sulfites or Sulfur dioxide in wine might give you a Headache Um but unfortunately there's no evidence For that but um it is an allergen for Two to three percent of population but Those um side effects will be Respiratory they won't be headaches Um clarification and filtration uh so Another aspect of our natural wine is This is we're going to do these Minimally Um the wine will not be fine so we're Not going to clarify our wine using Something like egg white Um as producers believe that

Clarification and filtration May strip The wine of its character So this means that some natural wine may Be cloudy or hazy in appearance and some Will be perfectly clear but some you Might see uh has potentially some Sediment or is a little bit cloudy and That's because it's been um it may not Have been filtered at all A couple of questions to kind of end With firstly Um is natural wine better for your Health and um I've got I've got bad news I'm afraid because the short answer is No Um at least there's little evidence to Currently support the idea that natural One is better for your health but um Research does evolve we may find out That actually it is currently there's Little evidence to support this idea Um this includes sulfites Um so as long as you're not allergic There's nothing to suggest that Consuming products within the legally Specified range is harmful Um and There are far higher levels of sulfites In a packet of dried fruit than there Are in wines that we're drinking even Conventionally made wines so Unfortunately Uh that's not an indicator other claims Regarding natural wine improving gut

Health and lessening hangovers I'm very Sorry to say are also currently Unfounded that's not to say um research Might kind of throw up Um some ideas about this but currently Um it doesn't seem to be that there are Uh any connections between natural wine And improving your health Um There's natural wine better for the Environment Um another another really important Question I think Um and this kind of needs to be broken Down a little bit so wine made without Synthetic pesticides herbicides or Fungicides Um such as organic or biodynamic Viticulture is less harmful to the Environment Um this includes things like Regenerative viticulture as well Ensuring that soil health is maintained Um the longevity of the soil uh also is Much better for the environment Um Vineyards that use less Machinery may Have a lower carbon impact so if your Vineyard activities whether you're Making conventional or natural wine if You're using less Machinery if you're Um uh hand harvesting for example rather Than machine harvesting you'll have a Lower carbon impact Um

A few things to point out regarding Transport and packaging natural wine is Still largely packaged in in glass and The method of transportation is rarely Considered within the world of natural Wine Um both transport and packaging are Widely considered to have the the most Harmful impact on the environment and as It is currently with natural wine there Is little discussion about both of those Factors when it comes to natural wine And its environmental impact however Certainly in the winery if we're going Along the natural one ethos it is uh Much better for the environment to be Purchasing uh wine that's been made Without pesticides herbicides and Fungicides Um a few words to describe natural wine Now um these don't necessarily Um uh factor into the WSET systematic Approach to tasting they're not Necessarily Um tasty notes that we might see across Our qualification some of them are Um but I kind of wanted to indicate here That a natural wine can taste for me Um funky cidery challenging Certainly they can Um but they can also taste elegant pure Bright complex And many words in between there are just As many words to describe a natural one

As there are to describe kind of wine in General uh natural wine doesn't have a Specific set of Aromas and flavors but It can include Aromas and flavors that You may not find in conventional wine And that's down to the way that it may Be produced Some key styles to try Um again these these uh wines are not Necessarily exclusively natural but they Make up a significant part of the the Natural One World the natural one Category Um so I've kind of narrowed them down Really into affordable sparkling wine And these might say on the label petilon Natural or pet nuts Um or colfondo these are sparkling wines That will be very characterful may have Some sediment in them maybe a little bit Hazy Um and should be uh quite a bit more Affordable than something like champagne Uh light bodied Reds um that's another Kind of big Um part of the natural wine uh category So uh sometimes lovingly referred to as Glue glue To imitate the noise of uh wine leaving A bottle as it's being poured out Um some examples to try game Um from Beaujolais uh game from the Loire Valley Um sanso from swotland and South Africa

As well these are juicy bright Um cranberry red curranty chillable red Wines low alcohol as well Um and kind of counter-intuitively for Conventional wine production Um we've got lighter Reds and more Age-worthy Fuller styles of white in the Natural wine category Um so these include skin contact wine So this is wine where we've harvested White grape varieties but we're going to Allow those white grape skins to impart Some color maybe some tannin into the Wine Um this may otherwise be known as orange Wine and actually I've done a webinar on Orange wine which you can also check out On the event tub Um on the wct global YouTube a little Whistle Stop tour of orange wine some Other styles of white floor aged wine And oxidative wine and these are small Aspects to the world of natural wine but Certainly these will create a more Characterful style of white Um some other styles to try wine that's Been fermented or stored in amphora this Is um certainly something that's Becoming very popular in the natural Wine Community these are traditional Clay vessels Um and pequette which I personally am Desperate to try I cannot find it in the UK and I don't believe you can find it

In the EU but you can find it elsewhere This is Um wine made from made from really the Byproduct of wine production it's wine Made from all of the Pressed out grape Skins Um some water is added to that and then It's fermented if it needs to be and This is a really light fresh Um drink often lower in alcohol that's Really worthwhile I haven't tasted it But I'm desperate to if you have please Let us know in the chat let us know what You thought of it Um A little kind of Um Note on uh packaging Um to end with Uh what I want you to do here we've got Three wines I want you to tell me if you Can spot the natural wine out of wine Number one why number two and why number Three so why number one is Um a wine from vuvre in the Loire Um by domain who it uh one number two is A sparkling carry on I'm from California Um from last jarrus Um and finally why number three is a Pinot Blanc from alsas uh demenz and Umbrecht so hopefully you've made your Decision about which one of these is the Natural wine And maybe some of you have spotted that

This is a trick question because these Are all natural wines and a lot of Natural wine is kind of known for having Really Jazzy packaging uh which why Number two certainly does why number one And three really look more traditional They're also much older more established Wineries but all of these wines have Been made with a natural wine ethos so They don't need to fit one particular Bracket natural wine they can cross a Lot of different Um a lot of different styles of wine as We can see here And with that in mind Um how can you be sure that the wine You're buying is is natural Um it's a really tricky thing Um by looking at the label as we can see With that last slide it's very difficult To tell if a wine is natural but just by Looking at the label Um really you've got to research the Individual producer Some certifications can help so I've put Some logos at the sides of this slide And these might all indicate that at Least part of the natural wine ethos was Adhered to in the in the process of Making the wine Um I I don't think we will likely be Getting a natural wine kind of clear Um easy certification and that's Partly because it's a relatively tricky

Thing to Define and that lots of people Have different views on it and partly Because part of the ethos of natural Wine is also very counter-cultural Mindset um and so a lot of producers Don't want to be part of a particular Kind of certification or scheme and That's part of what they're they're Railing against Um I'd say that more so than Conventional wine tasting the wine prior To purchasing is valuable because you Can't necessarily guess this style of Wine Um just by looking at the region or the Label in a way that you may more likely Be able to do with Um conventional wine So a real kind of Journey Through Natural wine there I hope it's been Um helpful And giving you at least some kind of Food for thought and some things to Think about really with a subject like This I feel like I've only scratched This Earth is really and given quite a Broad overview of all of these different Aspects to production a lot of these Slides could be webinars in and of Themselves but hopefully we've made a Kind of good start Um that just leaves me to say uh thank You Um and if you have any if you have any

Questions Um we might have uh a couple of minutes For a few Um so I'm just gonna bring up our Questions here Um Is there a specific neutral vessel that Is used for storing and fermenting Natural wine Um there isn't really I I just added That in as Um something that I've noticed across The natural wine category but it's not Actually so common for producers to Really specify Um that they do or don't use particular Vessels and concrete is quite popular Very old oak barrels are also quite Popular as well as amphora that we Touched on for a particular style Um which countries except for France Have certifications for natural wine Um that is a really good question and And quite a tricky question and so France has relatively recently Introduced uh van method nature Um which goes some way into certifying Natural wine Um when it comes to um the ethos it will Really depend on whether this is the Vineyard or the winery or both there are Certifications around the world for Organic production Um and there are also biodynamic

Certifications Um but for specifically natural wine Uh they're much fewer and further Between France really is the first kind Of country and the biggest um kind of Producer of this style the kind of Pioneer of this style Um By ambient do you mean natural yeast Fermentation yeah that is what I mean so What I mean by using ambient uses not Adding a specific cultured yeast Um allowing the yeast that exists in the Atmosphere to carry out the fermentation Much as you would do if you were making Um sourdough bread Um how can we educate consumers more on Climate and vintage variation I think This is a really good question and I Think actually it's already changing and Lots of natural wine producers are going A really good way to Um Educate consumers that uh consistency is Not necessarily Um hugely achievable when it comes to a Product that is grown Um annually uh depending on the growing Season so I think we're kind of already Getting there hopefully webinars like This Um hopefully Understanding a little bit more about How the the how wine is made

Um will help all consumers so whether That's taking a qualification or whether That Um visiting producers asking them Questions going to wine bars asking um Your service questions all of these Things are really helpful Um Last couple of questions Are you expecting a huge increase in Popularity of natural wine Um in the next few years I think it's It's growing and will continue to grow Yeah particularly in the UK there are Various Pockets that have started out With it I also think the overall quality Of natural wine Um will increase hugely in the next few Years as um uh things kind of iron Themselves out a little bit Um The final question Um do you think the natural one ethos Will eventually consider packaging Um I really really do hope that I think It's a really important part of the kind Of Um uh conscientiousness and Consciousness of natural wine that it Brings so much to the vineyard I really Hope we see that extended to packaging Um but a lot of that lies in the Consumer and making sure that the Consumer is Happy purchasing wine maybe

Not in a in a heavy glass bottle and Maybe in an alternative format Um another uh another big question Um that maybe will become an entirely Different webinar uh in and of itself Um Foreign Just one final question that I've Spotted here the difference between Natural wine and orange wine Um that's a really good uh question we Touched on it a little bit but um do Check out the the orange wine webinar um I hosted a few months ago um it really Goes from start to finish in the Production of orange wine so you'll be Able to see how that's different to the Natural wines um that we've discussed Here Um thank you so much for Coming along to this um presentation Everyone Um and I hope you've uh all uh learned a Little bit about natural wine hope You're all excited to taste some Um there's a poll that's popped up on Your screen Um please Um Uh uh fill that out if you can um and That just leaves me to say thanks again Um and enjoy the rest of your day